Ameshi Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I was looking at the shots of the "The Zone" project made in LE2, and Im impressed by the graphical fidelity. It's possible achieve the same quality in LE3.2 ? Or was LE2 more powerful? :/ Nothing so far made in LE3 come close I think. The lighting and the terrain look so good in LE2 o.õ More screenshots here: http://davelee3d.com/project_thezone.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick.ace Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Ok, this is kind of getting ridiculous. Can you please stop being so critical of the engine? I feel that everything you say is a knock on Leadwerks in some way, and it's not all that constructive. And no, LE2 was never as fully developed as LE3. LE2 had some cool graphical effects currently not present in LE3, but that's about all. LE3 has the potential to have those effects, and even more advanced effects due to OpenGL 4, but that hasn't been the focus this time around. Also, those scenes are totally capable of being rendered in LE3. People this time are more concerned with gameplay because the gameplay features in LE3 heavily expanded what was available in LE2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AggrorJorn Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 The only advantage that LE2 has over LE3 is vegetation painting. Other then that Le3 is more powerful on every aspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirsty Panther Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Have look at these and I think you would have to agree that Leadwerks 3 is not a step backward. http://steamcommunity.com/app/251810/screenshots/?p=1&browsefilter=trendsixmonths Shadmar, tattiebojangle, scrotieflapwhack and Michael j have shown that you can get quality images with Leadwerks 3. Just takes time and talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josk Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 LE3 is so much easier to work with, especially for hobby coders like me. Apart from making a few pretty scenes to run around in I never really got round to any gameplay in LE2. Quote Elite Cobra Squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty Alien Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 ..LE2.x is more a form of SDK, which i personally favorizing over editor based engines which ultimatively, in my opinion, restricting you in to certain extend..so i guess, its a matter of personal preference, rather than what each system could do...also, im not convinced at all, by looking many examples here, that LE3 could deal with heavy load levels, as LE2.x is capable of..i do not have LE3, but from various reports i see, it seems it cant really push far with large worlds, populated with various characters, and for LE2.x, i was able to have quite large worlds populated with many characters, AI, etc..at reasonable speed.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouGroove Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 It's possible achieve the same quality in LE3.2 ? Or was LE2 more powerful? :/Nothing so far made in LE3 come close I think. Ameshi : You are totally wrong one again, what make you think it looks better is not lightening or shadows but : - very good 3D art models with good details and textures (houses, rails etc ...) - vegetation system with quality 3D models : grass , trees, rocks make the scene looking very good compared to LE3 terrain screenshots - Some Full screen effects : Dof it seems Otherwise lights and shadows are same as LE3. You should start to make a game to see how far LE3 can get if you put some work Did LE2 supported LOD ? Quote Stop toying and make games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty Alien Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Did LE2 supported LOD ? ..it is simply, different product entirely..LE2.x variant i was working with, had LOD implemented as well as many other features, LE3 doesnt have..however, as i said, LE2.x is more like a , SDK, which lets you build things you would require..outside of box, LE2.x didnt offered much as LE3, from what I see, but product difference is something what should be considered before any comparing takes place.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameshi Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 ..LE2.x is more a form of SDK, which i personally favorizing over editor based engines which ultimatively, in my opinion, restricting you in to certain extend..so i guess, its a matter of personal preference, rather than what each system could do...also, im not convinced at all, by looking many examples here, that LE3 could deal with heavy load levels, as LE2.x is capable of..i do not have LE3, but from various reports i see, it seems it cant really push far with large worlds, populated with various characters, and for LE2.x, i was able to have quite large worlds populated with many characters, AI, etc..at reasonable speed.. I think I read another LE2.X users saying the same thing about large open scenes and heavy loaded levels. That's why I started this thread, older users call share past experiences with newcomers Thanks for the link Thirsty Panther This was made in LE3 and looks great! Almost HL2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macklebee Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 The screenshots you are posting simply show nice models. You can get the same look in LE3 if you had those models as well and set the post process effects similarly. The big difference between LE2 versus LE3 (not including the editor vs SDK aspect) is the capability for large scenes since no LOD or terrain vegetation has been implemented yet, but those features are on the horizon. Quote Win7 64bit / Intel i7-2600 CPU @ 3.9 GHz / 16 GB DDR3 / NVIDIA GeForce GTX 590 LE / 3DWS / BMX / Hexagon macklebee's channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 @Ameshi That scene is great, but getting your characters to move around in it is way easier in LE 3 than it was in LE 2 since you had to build your own system in LE 2 to do that. Now, some experienced people might say that's better as you have more control, but your average "I have a dream game I want to build but don't know much about game dev" person just wasn't able to get characters moving around their scene like they can in LE 3. And since LE doesn't take royalties all customers are pretty much created equal and the experienced guys aren't favored all that much over the guy with no experience. LE 3 was more about getting a lot of inexperienced people able to get some type of gameplay going and I think it's done it's job. We can only hope that over time some of those neat features in LE 2 come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouGroove Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Even without grass and trees, can Ameshi make some game as gorgeous as "The Zone" We could give you the best 3D engine, but if you are not able to make outstanding levels, it is useless. Quote Stop toying and make games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty Alien Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 ..as Mac said..its about models used and properly set textures/ambient vfx..this is one of the LE2.x very very early shots, long time ago..but if you want, i can post some really neat shots from few projects I have used LE 2.x, which i never show here before.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olby Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 ..as Mac said..its about models used and properly set textures/ambient vfx..this is one of the LE2.x very very early shots, long time ago..but if you want, i can post some really neat shots from few projects I have used LE 2.x, which i never show here before.. Looks good but where's the "game"? Quote Intel Core i7 Quad 2.3 Ghz, 8GB RAM, GeForce GT 630M 2GB, Windows 10 (x64) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamecreator Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Josh has also said in the past that he can still further optimize the engine. Once vegetation and LODs are implemented, I think we'll see some more performance increases. That said, the one thing I haven't seen that I also wish would be added is the freedom to put as many lights as you want, wherever you want. Seems like maybe the new system can't support it (you need to be careful about how you place them) but it was a great selling point in LE2. But this probably isn't a big deal - it was just something nicer LE2 had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josk Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Looks good but where's the "game"? I think it was a game called Hoodwink that was released. Quote Elite Cobra Squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Josh has also said in the past that he can still further optimize the engine. Once vegetation and LODs are implemented, I think we'll see some more performance increases. That said, the one thing I haven't seen that I also wish would be added is the freedom to put as many lights as you want, wherever you want. Seems like maybe the new system can't support it (you need to be careful about how you place them) but it was a great selling point in LE2. But this probably isn't a big deal - it was just something nicer LE2 had. The LE3 lighting is pretty much identical to LE2's. I seriously think people are finding the limitations in LE3 and forgetting the ones in LE2 because they are actually using the engine, instead of just taking screenshots. Oh and Leadwerks 2 terrain only could support four texture layers, due to hardware restrictions. It's easy to forget those things. 1 Quote My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catch22 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 By this logic blender is a better because hey you can make better looking screen shots, right? As for the "SDK" argument, you need to dig inside LE3 standard before you should offer too much opinion there. I cannot compare to LE2 since I've never used it, but I will assure you; LE3 is a full fledged API. It has so much of what anyone needs to make a fairly advanced game. One of the things I enjoy about Leadwerks is it is not a "game maker." I don't need a game maker, where you just drop your assets in and use whatever the game maker lets you do with it. It's a full fledged API, handling all the stuff no one really wants to deal with (resource management, culling, playing sounds, physics implementation, input, etc). It's worth twice what I paid for it for that alone. The level editor has a similar mentality; it's just a graphical representation of whatever you want... so you don't have to... write one. Listening to this "LE2 makes bigger scenes that look better" is like listening to my 4 year old trying to explain driving. Guess what? She doesn't know how to drive at all, or any of the details about it. Just that there's a car involved. In other words, you are clueless OP, as you've proven repeatedly. Perhaps it's time to be the silent fool? 1 Quote Coding for Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreativeOcclusion Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Oh and Leadwerks 2 terrain only could support four texture layers, due to hardware restrictions. It's easy to forget those things. Man, I remember all the restrictions and workarounds in LE2....I cussed more using LE2 than I have with LE3.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouGroove Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I tried to LE2, and it was C++ only, there wasn't gameplay framework also (start(), updateWorld() etc ...); also Lua was only intended for small scripts not to make a complete game, and the workflow was really bad and painfull, and there wasn't pathfinding for your AI. LE3 is massive improvment engine and allowing beginners to easy make a game using Lua to make complete games. Listening to this "LE2 makes bigger scenes that look better" is like listening to my 4 year old trying to explain driving He must be a beginner, to not understand why 3D art quality and good level composition are as important as the 3D engine In other words, you are clueless OP, as you've proven repeatedly. Perhaps it's time to be the silent fool? He should start making a game instead of doubting so much about LE3 possibilities Quote Stop toying and make games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamecreator Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 The LE3 lighting is pretty much identical to LE2's. I'm sure there are factors I'm not aware of why that video does two dozen+ lights at 70fps 6 years ago versus this thread at about 10 lights and 30fps today. I'm thinking higher quality settings and also the moving doors in the latter, at least. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreativeOcclusion Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I tried to LE2, and it was C++ only This is definitely an incorrect statement about LE2...This is one of the strong points of LE2....No offence YouGroove.... Languages Supported: C/C++, Java, C#, Visual Basic 6, VB.NET, Basic, D, Perl, Python, Delphi, Pascal, Fortran, Lisp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 To be fair official support is only C/C++/Lua in LE 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macklebee Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 To be fair official support is only C/C++/Lua in LE 2. BMAX was as well since the engine was written with it, but documentation tapered off the last year or so... 1 Quote Win7 64bit / Intel i7-2600 CPU @ 3.9 GHz / 16 GB DDR3 / NVIDIA GeForce GTX 590 LE / 3DWS / BMX / Hexagon macklebee's channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreativeOcclusion Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 OK ....Sorry if my statement was incorrect...But this was the main reason that I bought the program.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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