Game Characters

[Matthew Nicholls]

I'm going into the 'Character design make and sell business', if anyone has requests or suggestions for characters they would like to be able to buy then please post below. You are under no obligations to buy anything I make, it is just for market research. I am happy to explore any genre so keep the ideas coming. I will be mainly focusing on humanoid characters and their accessories.

 

When the models are ready for sale I will post some screenies here and you will have opportunities to buy. I'm not taking any orders yet or commissions.

 

Edit:

Thanks for the suggestions so far. I'll add to this list as they are suggested.

 

Character Request list:

 

Karate

Zombies

Basic human character (male female)

Space marine

Medieval warrior

Cowboy

 

Animation Request list:

ladder climbing

door opening

 

Clothing Request list:

smart suits

casual dress

hats,

boots,

gloves,

shoulder pads

[Canardia]

I want a Karateka character, which has the basic moves like in the C64 game Karateka:

http://www.c64gg.com/Gameinfo/Karateka.html

[Rick]

I think making a basic human character (male and female) and then making different clothes textures and other models to attach (hats, boots, gloves, shoulder pads etc) would be the best bet for someone. setup the bones correctly so these other models can be attached via code, then someone here could create an editor that allows us to attach all these and save the result as 1 model if we wanted to go that route or we do it ourselves in code in the game.

 

This would probably be the most efficient use of your time and your time would be spent on the accessories. You could get lots of different looks with different accessories from space marine, to medieval warrior, to cowboy and would allow you to turn out these accessories much faster than an entirely new model each time.

[franck22000]

Zombies for me

[cassius]

I find that when buying characters you are limited to the animations provided unless you know how to add your own anims. This limits what action you can put in your game.

I need a character that can climb a ladder or open a door in addition to the standard anims that are usualy provided.

Another thing to pay attention to is the order in which sequences are placed.Walk and run sequences should be next to each other and not seperated by swordfight sequences( for example.)

[Rick]

Another thing to pay attention to is the order in which sequences are placed.Walk and run sequences should be next to each other and not seperated by swordfight sequences( for example.)

 

?? Why is this? I wouldn't think it matters.

[cassius]

In some cases you can join up 2 sequences if they are next to each other.

EDIT. The run walk seq was probably a bad example

[Rick]

You mean blending? They don't have to be next to each other in the file for that. If you mean split animation then they won't need to be next to each other for that either. I'm still confused as to why the order matters I guess.

[Matthew Nicholls]

setup the bones correctly so these other models can be attached via code

 

Thanks Rick I plan on taking a modular design approach and create interchangeable parts that can be swapped and reused. What do you mean by setup the bones correctly. What do you have in mind?

 

Thanks Metatron Karate noted.

 

Thanks franck22000 Zombies noted. Skeleton already in production .

 

Thanks cassius animations noted; ladder climbing, door opening.

[Canardia]

Cool, then we can make a game by combining those 3:

A Karateka who kills Zombies with his bare hands and feet, and he can also climb ladders and open doors

[Rick]

What do you mean by setup the bones correctly. What do you have in mind?

 

Just saying if you plan on taking this path to have certain bones to handle the parenting of the accessory models. Like a bone at the head to be matched up with a bone in a hat/helmet accessory model. So that in code I find the head bone in your character model then find the matching bone in the hat model, and I place the hat model bone at the head bone and make the head bone it's parent. Then the hat will move correctly with the head!

 

Repeat for things like weapons for the hands, boots for the feet, shoulder pads for the shoulders, gloves for the hands belts for the waist, etc.

 

Doing this you could sell smaller priced "accessory packs" that dress up your character model. German soldier accessory pack, or swat team accessory pack that comes with textures and accessory models for us to "dress up" our base character model. Again, having a program that would allow us to do this visually and save the "dressed up" final model would be handy too for those who want a swat guy but don't want to assemble via code.

[Richard Simpson]

Some smart male/female characters (in suits) as well as casually dressed characters would be nice!

[Matthew Nicholls]

Just saying if you plan on taking this path to have certain bones to handle the parenting of the accessory models. Like a bone at the head to be matched up with a bone in a hat/helmet accessory model. So that in code I find the head bone in your character model then find the matching bone in the hat model, and I place the hat model bone at the head bone and make the head bone it's parent. Then the hat will move correctly with the head!

 

Repeat for things like weapons for the hands, boots for the feet, shoulder pads for the shoulders, gloves for the hands belts for the waist, etc.

 

Doing this you could sell smaller priced "accessory packs" that dress up your character model. German soldier accessory pack, or swat team accessory pack that comes with textures and accessory models for us to "dress up" our base character model. Again, having a program that would allow us to do this visually and save the "dressed up" final model would be handy too for those who want a swat guy but don't want to assemble via code.

 

Thanks Richard, smart suits and casual dress noted.

 

Thanks Rick. My intention is to make the characters with a bone position and naming system that will mean accessories will be placed without the need to adjust them in code. Ideally a lua script with just parent some model to this character, attached to each character should be enough to equip them. I hope to make a system that can be used easily in any game engine so if a team changes engine they could take their characters with them. Given enough time there should be enough characters and accessories so any team can use a selection of parts and get a variety of characters that can look unique to their game. My favourite part of any game is the character creation process. Especially with RPG and MMOs so expect to find a fully customisable system.

[Rick]

My intention is to make the characters with a bone position and naming system that will mean accessories will be placed without the need to adjust them in code.

 

I'm very interested in buying these models so that's why I'm asking questions and giving suggestions.

 

I'm still confused given your statement above. I mean I'd still have to attach them via code (even if lua, that's still code), or I mean I would want the ability to.

[Canardia]

Attaching is not the same as adjusting

Attaching is like weapon.SetMatrix(lefthandbone.GetMatrix()); weapon.SetParent(lefthandbone);

and adjusting is like weapon.SetMatrix(leftarm.GetMatrix()); weapon.Move(0.107,-0.212,1.2394); weapon.SetParent(leftarm);

[Rick]

Moving something with Move() or SetMatrix() is still moving it which is adjusting it's location. I don't want to get into a technicality fight with you but you get the idea of what I was talking about. If the bones on the character models are meant to match up with bones on the accessory models so that you can set the bone of the accessory to the correct done of the character and everything looks perfect, that's what I was talking about.

 

I've never seen anyone make models this way but it seems it would be the ideal situation for both the buyer and seller. If he does this we here at LE can make a program that visually allows assembling the accessories in that it makes a config file and then support it with a lua script to read the config file to automatically assemble the final model. This would help those who don't want to dynamically create a character in code but just want a static character look.

[Canardia]

That's what I said, adjusting includes the Move/Turn statement, since there is either no bone, but just an close-by mesh, or the bone is not exactly at the right position or rotation.

[Matthew Nicholls]

I'm very interested in buying these models so that's why I'm asking questions and giving suggestions.

 

I'm still confused given your statement above. I mean I'd still have to attach them via code (even if lua, that's still code), or I mean I would want the ability to.

 

I'm grateful for the questions Rick as they make me think more about the process. It also means the final product should be that much better so keep them coming =)

 

Yes you would be able to attach them through code. My point is that the things that can be attached will be set in the modelling process to match up with the points that they would be attached too. If you had a helmet for example you could just parent it to the head bone and it would fit without having to set its position manually. This would be done by having the model point of origin to be the point of attachment or have a bone that would be set to the attachment point. Models that don't need animations shouldn't then need bones. I know some modellers don't actually set up the axis for the model to match up and expect it to be done in code which can be fiddly and take a lot of time to sort out. It may take a little bit more time for me to get the hang of and set up initially, but I think it is worth the time to get things working together from the outset.

Is that any clearer?

[Rick]

If you had a helmet for example you could just parent it to the head bone and it would fit without having to set its position manually. This would be done by having the model point of origin to be the point of attachment or have a bone that would be set to the attachment point. Models that don't need animations shouldn't then need bones.

 

I don't think this would be the way to go. A helmet could fit multiple character models that are at different heights. I'm thinking RPG's where you could have a dwarf, night elf, human, orc etc. They would most likely be at all different heights and you would want to use the same helmet model for each to wear (less resources for us to use, reusable for you). I think having bone(s) on the accessory models would be the way to go. They would just be used for information instead of animation but that seems valid and then you wouldn't have to worry about lining them up correctly. Also if I scale your character model it might cause confusion, where if I have to do it via bones it's all good.

 

Given that an orc head would probably be bigger than a human head we can scale in code to fit the character it's on.

 

Think about who is going to buy your models. It'll be non-artists most which will probably be programmers.

[Matthew Nicholls]

Bones sounds like it might be the way to go then . It will be an ongoing process of experimentation, mostly trial and error. Whatever solution it turns out to be, it will be easy for the user to add to their game.

 

I think a program or interface to set up characters in game or just as a pregame process would best be done by the individual programmers for each game. If someone came up with a standalone tool or maybe an in-editor tool would be very cool. An NCP random creator would be neat as well. I don't have the time to develop anything like that as my time will be taken up modelling and animating for the foreseeable future

[Rick]

Using LE.NET a tool like that could be create pretty fast and easy and more Windows tool oriented with Windows GUI and such. The ideal situation with such a tool would be on the fbx file itself (assuming you'll support that format).

 

One for GMF would be cool for this community too though. If you create the modular pieces someone will create the tool I'm sure

[paramecij]

I think for starters you should do some passive fauna - like birds, rabbits, rats, cats, etc. .. I think there's a shortage of these, and it would be interesting for a more broader user base than medieval or sci-fi themes. I think it's better to start small and iron out the dev process first then to start with the main hero type projects right away. Plus I think that main hero chars aren't worth the trouble making - everyone has their own vision on how their main protagonist will look and animate like, so I think it's better if you work on 'supporting cast' characters or monsters, and do main chars upon request.. And I second Rick's comments on bones, sure It can work fine if you just parent the helmet on head, gun on right hand, ..but what if you char has no right or hands at all? It's more flexible this way and I find it's easier to ignore/remove than to add a bone if need be.. also since you're thinking modular, swapping things and such, I hope this also includes animation, so they could at least be shared across different characters, or used on previous chars if you make new/different ones.. I know it's impossible to try and do every animation people would need in their games, so I think a way to easily extend the animation set of a character in the future would be golden.. ..just my thoughts, and good luck with whatever you decide to do!

[Matthew Nicholls]

I think for starters you should do some passive fauna - like birds, rabbits, rats, cats, etc. .. I think there's a shortage of these, and it would be interesting for a more broader user base than medieval or sci-fi themes. I think it's better to start small and iron out the dev process first then to start with the main hero type projects right away. Plus I think that main hero chars aren't worth the trouble making - everyone has their own vision on how their main protagonist will look and animate like, so I think it's better if you work on 'supporting cast' characters or monsters, and do main chars upon request.. And I second Rick's comments on bones, sure It can work fine if you just parent the helmet on head, gun on right hand, ..but what if you char has no right or hands at all? It's more flexible this way and I find it's easier to ignore/remove than to add a bone if need be.. also since you're thinking modular, swapping things and such, I hope this also includes animation, so they could at least be shared across different characters, or used on previous chars if you make new/different ones.. I know it's impossible to try and do every animation people would need in their games, so I think a way to easily extend the animation set of a character in the future would be golden.. ..just my thoughts, and good luck with whatever you decide to do!

 

Thanks for the post Paramecij. For the moment I want to focus on humanoid characters as this does mean it is easier to make animations that can be modified to fit each character. Hopefully the animations will work with very little or no modification. Obviously animations can be pushed only so far in how they can fit different characters. It might be that I produce a basic set of animations for each body type and then animation packs that can be bought separately.

 

I am making characters that can be used for NPCs or main player characters. I may consider making fauna in the future but not just yet.

[Clackdor]

Hmm, zaphos, this is really interesting stuff you want to do. I like it because you want to do a major part of game design that I DON'T want to do. I'll have to keep you in mind for this stuff. I'm just not ready yet.

 

Neat stuff on your website! Of course I'm biased because it's all Star Wars.

[Rick]

How is the progress on this zaphos? Is this still an idea you are going after?