Josh Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 hahahahahh this thread is so funny.... your so quick to troll and talk your trash, but without watching how I do things, you have no sense of direction. I don't think he was talking trash. I have pointed out as much in my blogs. It's a common problem for all developers. My own experience before I committed to a definite design with Metal is that I enjoyed imagining infinite possibilities, and committing to a concrete idea changed that. From that point on, I was working on something where I knew exactly what the end product would be, and the fun of imagining what might be was lost. Of course, as I built a structure up I had more fun with what I created. My favorite part of production was testing AI in that orange foggy level. Towards the end of it, you will have things you wished you had done differently, and you will have features you wish you had added, and you will feel like it's not as good as it could be. At that point you need to finish it, release it, and then start a new project. As they say, "It doesn't mean sh** if it doesn't ship". Quote My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancakes Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 you forgot to add in 0.5 hour to make chart. rofl xD Quote Core I5 2.67 / 16GB RAM / GTX 670 Zbrush/ Blender / Photoshop CS6 / Renoise / Genetica / Leadwerks 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 Ironically, things that have shipped can be sh** I know for me, it's not 100% about getting a finished game if I think the game is sh**, I'd rather not have made it. Most of the programmers here could make a very simple FPS adventure game where you open doors, and have a lantern in your hand, and check off things to do, but honestly for me I'm not excited by those games. You generally want to make games you are excited about, and the bar for those games are generally high for most people. So high that they basically become unattainable by a single person or even a small group. So for me it's not just about having a finished game. The game has to be good. [EDIT] Someone in the video game business to make money first and make fun/good games they love second, would probably be the best person to finish their games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Red Ocktober Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 Towards the end of it, you will have things you wished you had done differently, and you will have features you wish you had added, and you will feel like it's not as good as it could be. exactly... in my case i've had to dump the mixture controls and logic, dump the prop controls and logic... simplify the fuel system... and eliminate some of the gauges... all this after entering this thinking i had it all well thought out, and that it would be a snap... also... another reason why projects fail when we try to put too much into it... and i'm finding this out again (and again )... we go through phases of developement... first is the happy times... we imagine this grandeous killer game... with all the realism and bells and whistles and cool graphics... then comes the first dose of reality (at least for me)... the modelling and skinning part... just getting nicely detailed model created is a task in itself, but if that weren't enough... you gotta get it into the 'engine'... ok, no big deal then comes the introduction of the logic... the coding part... with this airplane thingee it's mostly a matter of making sure the pilot can add power and control the plane... and having a basic lifting airfoil to work with, this wasn't too hard... at least not in the beginning... but, halfway through, the realization that everything is interrelated suddenly hits home when you decide to add a simple battery switch... and now the logic has to be redone for almost everything that is related to the battery being on or off... which happens to be practically everything in a plane... this'll happen a few times at least... but you perservere, an you punch through this phase... and it is here that you realize there's still at least 8 intrument gauges, along with their logic, and the models, and the skinning, that still needs to be done... (check the attached screenies... before and after for an idea of what i'm babbling about)... so much for being close to finished... hey... sounds like it's time to visit the forum... or check out steam for any bargains... a session with MOH maybe... anything but the now boring prospect of modeling... texturing... coding... remodeling to fix those errant vertices that are messing everything up... recoding because the logic is now taking into account what it should've before i started it... this is the phase where most people will give up... and it understandable why... heck... the rote work is exhausting... a single problem can stretch into days before it's solved (my alignment of the artificial horizon during flight maneuvers is a case in point)... lets assume though, just for arguments sake, that your just a lil bit determined... and just a lil bit crazy... and that you gotten past this phase... now comes the really dangerous time... here's where you'll try to add just one more thing... and after that, anohter one more thing... this is the point where your hard drive will crash, and you'll loose all of your work... anyways... i have to say again how much i admire those guys who did Penumbra... in my opinion, that's a good study in getting the most outta the least... not once did i feel that the game lacked anything, yet... if you look at it from a developers standpoint... each 'level' only contained what was necessary to keep the player involved and interested... they knew when to stop adding stuff... i think they knew from the onset that they should limit themselves... this lil plane thing has taught me a lesson... several lessons as a matter of fact... mainly though... don't go crazy with too much stuff... don't plan a game that's too involved... it just aint gonna happen with a one or two man shop... 'cause even the simplest of scenery elements can become a chore by itself if you try to go too far with it... (the plan is to port the plane below into Leadwerks as soon as i can get the logic for an airfoil working) --Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 anyways... i have to admire those guys who did Penumbra... in my opinion, that's a good study in getting the most outta the least... not once did i feel that the game lacked anything, yet... if you look at it from a developers standpoint... each 'level' only contained what was necessary to keep the player involved and interested... I agree 100%. Many people would have said "a puzzle game with physics? It's been done." But look what it evolved into. Quote My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooshi Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 I agree 100%. Many people would have said "a puzzle game with physics? It's been done." But look what it evolved into. I agree totally. Quote Working on a major RPG project.......will showcase soon. www.kevintillman1.wix.com/tillmansart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonramp Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 I'll put a little in here. The reason there are so few completed projects made with the LE is glaringly obvious to me. NO FRONT END. Over the last two months I've been looking around and apart from UDK which has the most amazingly indepth editor, Unity3d stands out as being so successful because with every compile it comes with an editable front end. The basis of every game is the ability of the player to set things the way they want to. Screen resolution, keyboard and mouse choices etc. Sound adjustment is also essential in the front end. In my opinion, if Josh were to include an editable Front End (In Lua) with the LE. then users would flock to it's use and games would be completed regularly. Quote AMD Athlon x2 7750 2.7ghz, 6gb ddr2 ram, Galaxy9800GT 1gig ddr2 video card, Windows 7,64. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canardia Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 (the plan is to port the plane below into Leadwerks as soon as i can get the logic for an airfoil working) It doesn't work with Newton that way, I've tried it already. It just starts to shake and Newton goes nuts with the forces when you try to lift an airplane from its wings. What you have to do is to assume a UFO flight style and then degrade it to an airplane flight style. So you just use a global vertical lift to the body of the airplane, no matter in which rotation it is, and control the altitude that way. Quote ■ Ryzen 9 ■ RX 6800M ■ 16GB ■ XF8 ■ Windows 11 ■ ■ Ultra ■ LE 2.5 ■ 3DWS 5.6 ■ Reaper ■ C/C++ ■ C# ■ Fortran 2008 ■ Story ■ ■ Homepage: https://canardia.com ■ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancakes Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 I agree 100%. Many people would have said "a puzzle game with physics? It's been done." But look what it evolved into. Life is a puzzle game with physics! Quote Core I5 2.67 / 16GB RAM / GTX 670 Zbrush/ Blender / Photoshop CS6 / Renoise / Genetica / Leadwerks 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AggrorJorn Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 The problem I allways face is that I am looking for new concepts in a game. Even if things seem 'simple' in the beginning, eventually you will allways want to add more features and possibilities. Resulting in gameplay that becomes to complex to write for a beginner. Even simple run, checkpoint, next level games can be quite a task. Let say you want to make 2.5 game. You can run, jump, get a checkpoint and even have some nice effects in the game. However, then you start to think about "how to make your game unique or different then others..". Look at the game "Trine" for example. (http://trine-thegame.com/site/) THey have some basic running and jumping and some very god graphics. But trying to add all the special features can be very challenging. To get back to the first topic: frictional games (developers of penumbra) has done an outstanding job of creating an interactive gameplay that feels unique yet adds so much more atmosphere to the game. The idea is quite simple, but finetuning it can be quite the trick. I have been trying to recreate many of those things for the (in the meantine unhold) horrorgame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joh Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Hi, i am back to "work" (well i am on holiday now but i am back to work on Leadwerks) the game we are creating is quite simple it's a spaceship game (like the old x-wing or wingcommander) with few more option like buying part of ships and trade. We need to complete it on October and it will probably sold on December, we really hope to achieve this objective! Nice to see there is another version.. Quote Intel Corei7-6700, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980, 32GB DDR4, W-10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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