this engine

[Sarkose]

If you're serious about game dev, there are much better solutions out than this.

 

Many like comparing this to the CryEngine (which is really funny), but it's definitely not even close to that level. It's more comparable to Blitz and Dark Basic level, with a few more features.

 

Performance is something I would consider to be horrible. It's very slow, and if you are wanting to target a wide range of end users for your app then it's simply not going to happen (even with plenty of optimization).

 

It seems fairly stable, and I didn't run into many problems, which I suppose is good considering that there isn't a large team behind the development of the engine.

 

Support is also very weak. Getting straightforward answers is like pulling teeth sometimes. The forum community is also quite rude at times, including the main developer.

 

Ease of use is okay if you're a programmer. If you're an artist you'll definitely have a hard time with it, and expect to run into a myriad of problems. But even for programmers it can be problematic as well.

 

This engine does have plenty of potential to become something really good if a team was assembled to take it to the next level. But seeing how other indie engines out there like Torque, Unity and UDK are moving forward quickly, LE2 is starting to fall far behind very quickly.

 

Overall if you're a hobbyist, then it doesn't seem too bad and if you just want to play around, but don't expect to finish any game within a reasonable amount of time, in fact there aren't any completed and published games from this engine yet that I've seen, so that in itself is not a good sign....

[Guest Red Ocktober]

hahahahhahahahaaaaaa

 

no... seriously... don't be shy... tell us how you really feel...

 

 

---Mike

[DaDonik]

Your not an SDK owner...how can you judge the engine?

 

Calling the community and josh rude is the best sign that you don't know what you're talking about

[macklebee]

wow... i know that post! i believe this was the person that was banned at one point? this was also the genius that decided he was going to program his LE game with Java... and then complained about lack of support...

[Laurens]

I can vaguely recall this review from DevMaster.net.

 

Now tell me!

 

Are you an actual SDK owner in hiding or did you pirate it?

[macklebee]

I can vaguely recall this review from DevMaster.net.

 

Now tell me!

 

Are you an actual SDK owner in hiding or did you pirate it?

 

if its not who i think it is, then its a scumbag pirate who doesn't get support

[Sarkose]

Oh and also -- professionals would never code something like a 3D engine in BlitzMax. That's another very strange aspect. I am not sure why anyone would try to code a Game Engine in Blitz.

[macklebee]

and what pray tell do you as a professional program your games in? please show some of your work, you pointless troll.

[Sarkose]

I am just saying.. professionals code purely in C language.. C++ for stuff like this.

 

Blitz is a nooby language that really has no business being the foundation of game engines.

 

C++ is a much more powerful language, which is used for commercial games and apps. Nobody uses Blitz for professional development.

[diedir]

omg his name remembers my own (bad) president....

is it him ? please don't tell me...

i hope he is not of my bad poor national soccer team too ....

need sweep here !

[Canardia]

If you're serious about game dev, there are much better solutions out than this.

Tell me ONE and I'll switch immediately (yes I own already 20 other engines)!

 

Many like comparing this to the CryEngine (which is really funny), but it's definitely not even close to that level. It's more comparable to Blitz and Dark Basic level, with a few more features.

From the capabilites it's much closer to CryEngine3, than to Blitz3D or DarkBasic.

 

Performance is something I would consider to be horrible. It's very slow, and if you are wanting to target a wide range of end users for your app then it's simply not going to happen (even with plenty of optimization).

It's actually much faster than Ogre3D, which is considered a very fast engine. If something is slow, you are using some high-end features for which your computer is too slow. You can disable all high-end features to make it run on low-end computers also.

 

It seems fairly stable, and I didn't run into many problems, which I suppose is good considering that there isn't a large team behind the development of the engine.

There can only be one. But he has some helpers to do non-engine related stuff.

 

Support is also very weak. Getting straightforward answers is like pulling teeth sometimes. The forum community is also quite rude at times, including the main developer.

Support is the fastest I've ever seen on any engine forums. I can just write some question and within minutes I get a solution. I can also use mail and MSN. Plus the community can in 99% cases answer things directly, so you don't always need to ask the developer for questions.

 

Ease of use is okay if you're a programmer. If you're an artist you'll definitely have a hard time with it, and expect to run into a myriad of problems. But even for programmers it can be problematic as well.

It works fine for artists if they learn how to use 3DSMax. Most people just think they can start modelling with it, without knowing what local tranformation spaces are. You can also export directly as gmf from 3DSMax, so the pipeline is 0.

 

This engine does have plenty of potential to become something really good if a team was assembled to take it to the next level. But seeing how other indie engines out there like Torque, Unity and UDK are moving forward quickly, LE2 is starting to fall far behind very quickly.

You mean it's better to pay $50 for each engine component, like in Torque ($50 for physics, $50 for shadows, $50 for shaders, etc...), or pay $1500 for Unity, or pay 25% of all your income with UDK? I'm glad LE is royalty free, as as an Indie developer I need all the money I can earn, and the government already takes 25% taxes, so I don't need the engine to take another 25%.

 

Overall if you're a hobbyist, then it doesn't seem too bad and if you just want to play around, but don't expect to finish any game within a reasonable amount of time, in fact there aren't any completed and published games from this engine yet that I've seen, so that in itself is not a good sign....

My game is almost finished, and many other people have also their game in a decent state. There's also tons of published free games (I made a list of them with screenshots in the old forum), but seems nobody wants to know about them. At least publishers not, since they can't make money with free games

[Naughty Alien]

..dear Sarkose, i am so sorry to hear that, especially for such really friendly community such as this one..you are right about fact that LE is not there where is Cry engine but only because not yet polished tools in to that extend, and multiplatform..but on another side, what you dont know that LE will within 1 year-1 year and half, be able to run on PS3 (compiled on to it) without changing source..its moving in correct direction and i cant understand from where came from such observation such as yours..it is true that some things may be better, but we are all growing, and that means, doing mistakes here and there, arent we? And i will just tell you one thing..every engine is good as much as programmer sitting behind it, so does LE..and with proper use, i guarantee that you can blow out of water huge majority of super expensive engines, speed and time(been there)..here is few non tuned up shots for ya..not perfect just first draft ,but absolutely over plain basics as you pointing..

 

 

[Canardia]

C++ is a much more powerful language, which is used for commercial games and apps. Nobody uses Blitz for professional/commercial development.

There are thousands of professional Blitz3D games (professional means to make money, profession=work), including the world famous Bejeweled Blitz, and real arcade coin machines. Every language can be used professionally, even the most simplest BASIC variant.

[Sanctus]

Okay while I programm in C++ for the most I just have to say the you are an idiotic freak to say "Nobody uses Blitz for professional development." People got more money from blitzmax and blitz3D than your life will ever be worth. I had a job to do a clock with nice graphics. I did that in like 2 hours and I got around 250$. Look at Gray Alien games. The guy there programs his games in blitzmax and now works at Bigfish games.

Blitzmax supports a lot of nice features (language-wise) and even if it has a garbage collector it runs fast.

If I'd have to do a casual game I'd choose blitzmax FTW.

 

Tough I'd have to agree with you on some points. The support could be better on actual features not "How would I go to making burning building" or stuff like that. And Lumooja don't say that the support the fastest. Maybe that's because you have a source license but not everyone affords that.

 

Also yes indeed not many games have been made. The free ones can't even really be called prototypes and I wonder if even 5% from the games that people work on will hit the shelves. Still... give it time.

 

Once all the functions will work well it will be really nice to use it.

 

Btw guys if you want to develop a MMO check out Hero Engine. Awsome stuff there. Thinking of buying that just for the pleasure of having it.

[Guest Red Ocktober]

and also of interest, the guys at Frictional Games have released the source to the first Penumbra game to GPL...

 

see this thread

 

oh yeah, nice shots NA... a lil overdone on the dof, but verrrrrry atmospheric...

 

--Mike

[Canardia]

Btw guys if you want to develop a MMO check out Hero Engine. Awsome stuff there. Thinking of buying that just for the pleasure of having it.

Ryzom is a fully working MMO, and they made it now free and open source. You can use all their thousands of assets in your own games:

http://www.ryzom.com

[Rick]

People got more money from blitzmax and blitz3D than your life will ever be worth

 

wowser!! Although the OP is clearly misguided it never amazes me how far some people go when something they like gets insulted. That one was pretty far.

 

As far as the OP language argument goes I would assume he meant AAA games, which he's mostly correct. However there are many levels of games making money below AAA. However, seeing how one can program with the engine in C/C++ it should really not mean much at all what it's created in. It's well known, at least I think it is, that LE is geared towards higher end machines (currently), so performance has little to do with BMax and more to do with the features LE supports.

 

 

Ease of use is okay if you're a programmer.

 

This is pretty much the case in basically any engine out there. Even with things like UDK, sure it might be easy to get pretty pictures up, but most non programmers would probably end up saying what you are saying when it comes to getting the game logic put in.

 

Overall it sounds more like frustration on the OP part with maybe realizing that a ton of work is required to make a game, and the amount of work can be helped by only very expensive engines, which most of us can't afford. Maybe he's just taking it out on LE.

[Pixel Perfect]

I have had some issues with this engine as people here will know but I am, I like to believe, fair in my criticism. To compare this engine to Dark Basic is frankly laughable as I will testify to having used both DBPro and DarkGDK. Leadwerks may lack high end tools but for it's price is a beautifully constructed game engine SDK more than capable of producing high end output if you're prepared to put the work in.

 

In conclusion I simply fail to recognise your overall description and opinion of Leadwerks. It sounds like someone who has either not used it or is incapable of appreciating what they have in front of them! Again I would mirror Macklbee's request for evidence of work you have done to justify such criticism.

[Michael Betke]

Leadwerks. Some love it. Some hate it. Sometimes I also do.

But I make good money with the projects so I think I can talk as a professional.

 

If you are an artist you need to get a good coder to be able to do a game.

My impression is most people cosider Game Engine = Mod SDK with a lot of premade stuff.

 

I tested a lot of engines, just from my artist point of view, and Leadwerks was the one I can do my stuff with.

 

EDIT: Don't feed the trolls. B)

[macklebee]

EDIT: Don't feed the trolls.

 

B)

[Pancakes]

People got more money from blitzmax and blitz3D than your life will ever be worth.

 

That is a GEM. That is a pretty sweet thing to say in a game/book/ or movie but probably not real life or the internet. Btw, you don't mind if I borrow some of that phrase, it was really sweet!

[Sean]

@Michael, indeed, not worth responding to. if you don't like LE then go away. And find something you do like, why hang around and badmouth stuff. it is just not productive.