tournamentdan
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Posts posted by tournamentdan
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The human visual system can process 10 to 12 separate images per second, perceiving them individually. If your game is getting 100 fps. Currently the engine is doing 100 shadow updates per second. But your visual system only processed 10 to 12 updates. To me, updating sooner than 9 Or 10 fps is a waste of performance.
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Yes, Crytek made a poor implementation. You could tell that PC was not their first concern.
Crytek was most likely paid a lot of money by nvidia to have those over tesselated models in game.
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To what factor did you tessellate those walls?
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i think you would see a little mismatch doing it this way (how josh said). (would.. love to test how big this mismatch is, but waiting for 3.1 steam
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isn't it completely indifferent if you run the game with 200 fps and shadow updates 3 times per sec or with 10 fps and shadow updates 3 times per sec, i mean you have 3 shadow updates per second? (the only change is that the game is running smoother) or am i wrong?
Right, as long as the amount per second stays the same. It will be the same. However the amount of frames per update will have to evolve as your game evolves.
I just read some things I did not know. I thought the human eye to brain process was around 30fps. I just read that it is actually 10 to 12 fps. Most films are played at 24 to 25 fps. The hobit movie was at 48 fps to make it more realistic. I now doubt that you need to update more than 10fps. Which is a big jump from every frame.
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shadow updates 3 times a second? :/
imagine a game running with 3 fps, then you now how the shadows would look like.
I think it would lag massive (but maybe increases performance yeah)
I seriously doubt you can see something change at three times per second. Two might be pushing it. Its no different than physics updates. You do not need a update every frame. How many frames you would do an update depends on what your game is getting for fps. And your fps will change as your game evolves. Your game may star out at 200 fps. So you would update every 66 frames. When your game is done. You might get 60fps. So every 20fps should be fine.
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Are the shadows updated every frame or can we drop the shadow update to about twice or maybe three times per second.
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Yougroove. Much can be learned from that project. You see some games out there have what's called cut scenes. You will be able to use almost everything learned in the project. Game asset and movie asset creation are pretty much the same. For most assets, you create a very high poly model first. Then retopo the model down to the poly count needed. For games you will be able to use the bone rigging and animation from the project. Really the only thing that you won't be able to use for in game assets, is any tuts about cycles render. Cycles renders light completely different from anything else and any material generated in cycles will not be usable in a realtime engine. However you could still use that info for cut scenes.
I do agree that it will not be for beginners. I would go to cgcookie. Become a member for at least a month and down load everything you can. Then use project gooseberrie for advanced learning.
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When it comes down to it. Less people finish a game than start one. I think this is what convinced the other engines to go to a subscription. A lot of people were downloading their "free" engine but only a few finished games for them to make royalties off of. Maybe the best way for josh is to do a subscription also, but add the export add ons as features to help entice more people to subscribe.
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It's hard to tell Josh that when it sounds like Linux has made him many times more money than mobile.
Think of how much money he is going to loose when people are ready to export their game.
Betting on a steam console to me is risky. I honestly think it will end up like ouya. Their might be room if Nintendo has to bow out. But who knows.
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Such crystal balle, much fortune tell, wow.
I was right about Y2K, Brad Pitt and Jennifer Aniston breaking up, and the housing bubble. So yeah. I'm pretty good.
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That's not 100% true. When 3.2 comes out it'll cost money and all those Linux people (or most) will upgrade. Pretty much all these engines have exhausted their user bases so paid upgrades or monthly charges is how they keep making money.
I would actually like to see a monthly subscription for LE but I know some people don't like those. I'd rather dish out $5 - $10/mo instead of $100-$200 an upgrade. If the sub happened I wonder if allowing people to allocate their portion to certain tasks each month would be something that would work. Josh could lay out a list of features/bugs or whatever and we could all say how much we would allocate our funds too and the one that has the most money would get worked on for that month. This is sort of like a bunch of mini Kickstarters.
I love thinking about alternative business models. I mean with the model above it would basically be like us hiring Josh as a consultant to make the game engine the majority want. How cool would that be
Every time you mentioned "numbers" you meant new customers. Me too.
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The demand was not there because no one was ready to export a product. That is normally when you buy a export add on right? I mean we are talking about a new engine that lacks features and has performance issues. Why would a new user want to spend extra money on a add on when they are unsure about the engine or maybe even their project.
I keep hearing the numbers don't match or add up. The thing about the linux numbers are, that there aren't any more left. Leadwerks for linux exhausted the potential customer base. So josh is going to see the same sales performance as the mobile.
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I can meet the needs of Linux and PC developers quite well. The Leadwerks workflow is really cool and different from anything else out there. The editor is getting more refined, and the engine is rapidly gaining a lot of power (on PC). I don't think I can meet the needs of mobile developers right now.
PC
Cost of development: Medium
Demand: High
Mobile
Cost of development: High
Demand: Low
Nothing I have seen in the last few months has given me a strong indication otherwise. I think the question came up twice on the Steam forum.
Good luck in your endeavors. I wish you nothing but success.
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@Aggor My only comparison to unity is that it has export add ons just like leadwerks did. And it would be stupid for a new user for a software product to buy a export add on in early development.
Josh made a reference to unity and it is more bull****.
Intel released a free game engine for mobile, and in response Unity made their mobile add-ons free, the same week Leadwerks 3.0 was announced. This drove the value of a cross-platform abstraction layer to zero overnight, because there wasn't much of anything unique I could add to mobile.
Last time I checked (which was this morning) it still cost $1,500 for each android and ios. Or $75 a month per. That's a little bit higher than free. Which drives the value of your mobile export up.
The sales of the PC version of Leadwerks have been consistently strong, and the mobile sales after the first few months were abysmal. Like one or two a month.
This kind of backs up what I am saying. Your loyal customers bought the export add ons at first. To help support the cause. New users are not going to buy an export add on until they even decide they can finish a game. Now to me. Doing the export add ons first was kind of like putting the cart before the horse. But you said " I want to start on the cross platform system first because it is the unknown for me". Not a lot of people liked that but I supported you on this. And now that you have the horse back in front of the cart. You want to burn the cart. We all know it takes time to make a video game. I know in my heart of hearts that when these new users start to make strides in their game and can finally see the finish line. They will want to buy a export license. But they won't be able to. Because you will be to busy putting all your eggs in one basket. Again.
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What were we promised with LE 3.0 mobile? I may have missed a thread but from what I can tell Josh did give us a mobile version that works.
You must of been in a coma when mobile was the only direction he was going. (do you really not remember all that mobile propaganda he would spout out) And we all begged him to include a high end renderer. If he was going to kill the mobile export, he should have done so then. Not now. How many times has this same question been asked over the last year? To many times. And each time Josh purposely ignored and did not answer those questions. Just so he could mislead people in thinking it would be supported in ALL future versions and they would buy a license.
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I agree but that's because $1,500 for a lone dev is a lot. What was it, $99 for LE Android? That's much more reasonable to anyone. Also, again, Unity is established in the mobile space and is a bigger company than LE.
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?? I still own 3.0. I can still make games that target 3.0 so that hasn't been taken away from me.
Just because it is more affordable doesn't mean you should buy an export license at the beginning phase of game creation.
No more bug fixes for 3.0 and less features. Not exactly what we were promised.
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Tournamentdan, you are dealing with a 1 man show here. A small shop. They have to be supported differently than a big shop or an engine that already has been established in that specific field (mobile in this case). They can't afford long development cycles by game devs in order to make their money. So when Josh spends lots of time and effort on mobile and you plan on making a mobile game then you need to support that right away or this is what you get.
Yes. This is exactly what I did. And at that time I was lead to believe that mobile support would ALWAYS be there. I myself bought the mobile add ons to help support the future of Leadwerks. But new customers are not going to do this. For example nobody is going to go buy Unity for $1,500 and all of export add ons at the same time. No. You would buy the normal license. Try it out for some time and once you get far enough in game production. Then buy export add on. Same with new customers here.
My simple little mobile game that I made in about a month paid for my copy of LE mobile. Sometimes you have to do things that aren't your dream game to pay the bills.
You pretty much proved my point with this comment. Now you can not do this. The potential revenue has been taken away from us.
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..this situation seems to be rather identical or very similar to crossroad between LE2.x Leadwerks 3.x, when existing user base asked for desktops(WIN/Linux/OSX) what was rejected in favors of mobiles..deja vu..
Yeah. Its a disturbing recurring occurrence.
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The end users voted with their wallet. I don't like the lack of mobile in 3.1 but I don't know how anyone can't understand the situation. Basically nobody bought the mobile versions compared to the Linux versions.
A lot of people did not buy the mobile add on because (A) the main engine lacked features. Why would you spend extra money when the engine lacked enough features to create a game? (b)You really do not need to export to a mobile device until you start to get to the end of production. Last time I checked, game creation can take a good bit of time to create a game start to finish. So there is no need to buy a export add on until you get farther in the game creation.
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Lies, lies, lies and more damn lies. You certainly have some of the worst business ethics I have ever come a crossed.
You decided to support mac and linux so you could increase your potential end users. So why are you taking potential end users from us?
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Not that I like facebook but this will most likely make it more affordable. They are going to use it for more than gaming. Which means more users. More users means more units sold. More units sold means cheaper prices.
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Are you using cycles render in blender to create textures?
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You can only program with lua in the steam version. Just a heads up since you mentioned teaching c++. I believe josh is going to have to make a system to allow people to upgrade from steam to the pro edition.
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I used to toy around with iclone and have made many character models in the past the way I have explained. To better explain it check out the video and article I link.
http://developer.reallusion.com/whitepaper/Maya_Template/index.html
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Shifting focus
in Tech Talk
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That's kind of funny. It took you a lot longer to implement linux than both mobile combined.