MasteR

As a stand alone statement: I don't want to use LUA or LEO or Framewerk...and I should not have to. Why? because I have the .DLL. BUT… I'm beginning to understand that the Leadwerks editor is more than just a nice toy which makes it easier for non programmers to create games using the Leadwerks engine. In fact I now feel that the editor and the engine are a package that should be used together to great effect. The editor is a type of GUI to the Leadwerks engine that not only allows easy map creation but when combined with LUA scripting allows easy game creation (provided you can use the LUA scripting language). I can see the editor relies heavily on LUA scripts and as I did not develop the program myself that’s okay by me. But my opinion is that, as the editor is the other half of the Leadwerks circle, the benefits of its use should be available to developers who choose to access the Leadwerks engine.dll directly, without relying on a 3rd party scripting language. Currently it is not. I understand that many of you will be aware of the below process but it helps underline my issue. I may also be wrong. When the Leadwerks editor loads a scene it goes through the .SBX (text) file and creates a “model” for each entity present that was dragged and dropped onto the screen. For each entity in the text that loads a .GMF model file the editor will have a look for an accompanying LUA script. If found this script will access Leadwerks engine commands and perform certain actions. e.g. When the cage light model is loaded its accompanying LUA script will, amongst other things, access the Leadwerks engine commands and create a point light entity. This process is also performed when you simply drag and drop a model into your scene. The problem is that when the scene is saved and loaded directly into a program using the LoadScene(); command all dynamically created (LUA script created) entities were not saved in the .SBX file and are therefore not created in your program. The x amount of staticly created entities are all there but the information pertaining to the dynamic entities they create is lost. In the “tunnels.sbx” example a search for entities after LoadScene(); locates 62 “class=model” entities which is great but there is no way of knowing what the model used to be and do in the Leadwerks editor. A GetEntityKey(scene,”name”) is not an efficient way of finding this lost information and directly relies upon the proper naming of entities in the Leadwerks editor. To enable the benefits of the Leadwerks editor to non LUA script users I see the following solutions: Dynamically created entities should also be saved in the .SBX file with the relevant “class” key also saved. e.g. “light_point” When all entities in the Leadwerks editor are saved to the .SBX file an additional key “classname” could also be saved to each model, keeping a reference to the major type of entity that the model dynamically creates. e.g. (LUA script) self.model:SetKey("entitytype","light_point") I acknowledge that my understanding of this may be completely wrong, in which case I’m happy to be educated. Anything that solves my problem, as right now only LUA script users can get the full benefits from the Leadwerks editor and by that token the Leadwerks engine as each element forms one half of a full circle.

Just figured out how to update the engine to 2.31 (perhaps the steps involved should be advertised). I instantly noticed a drop of 20 fps, in the editor and my program. Simply loading the "tunnels.sbx" in both cases, no alterations have been made. Is this to be expected? I thought the lighting optimizations would have the opposite effect. Any ideas?

For me this issue could be reasonably placed in the C++ Programming section, the Leadwerks Editor section or the Feature Requests section. So I decided to place it in General Discussion instead. I'm quite happy for this to be moved to a more appropriate section for either exposure or relevance. I'm no expert as I have no scripting experience but my understanding is that the LUA scripts access methods in the Leadwerks engine which if you break it down even further the Ladwerks engine simply access methods in the OpenGL API. Scripts simply make using the engine more accessible to people with little to no programming experience. e.g. taken from the above mentioned script. local object=self.super:CreateObject(model) object.light=CreateDirectionalLight(object.model) I believe this script simply calls the Leadwerks engine methods in a way similar to the below C++ example by passing the relevant arguments. private TEntity object = LoadModel(model); TLight light = CreateDirectionalLight(object); I'm looking for a solution that does not rely on LUA scripting, or on 3rd party classes. And there should be one as both access the same engine methods that I can access directly.

After loading "tunnels.sbx" into a simple program it is my job to then recreate lights in the engine. Running the following code: DrawText(0,0,"%s",(str)GetEntityKey(scene,"class")); int i; for(i=1;i<=CountChildren(scene);i++) { DrawText(0,15+(i*15),"%s",(str)GetEntityKey(GetChild(scene,i),"class")); } This shows me that the scene loads in as a Pivot entity and all of the other 62 entities created in the Leadwerks editor load in as Models. This means that I am unable to simply create lights in the engine that correspond to the lights created in the Leadwerks editor. I noticed that in the Leadwerks editor entities can’t share the same key (name). This meant that even if I created the scene from scratch with the above problem in mind using: GetEntityKey(entity, “name"); Was an inefficient process. Upon opening the "tunnels.sbx" file in a text editor the problem became apparent. All entities created in the Leadwerks editor were saved as models, even light entities loaded in an invisible sphere model but more importantly all entities had their class set to "model" regardless of what their actual class was. Based off this information I have some questions and invite discussion: Why does the editor load in invisible spherical objects for entities? When saving the .SBX file why not save lights or for that matter any entity as their actual type? Or even step down and just save their class property as their actual class? Should this loss of data be addressed or am I missing something myself? (Quite probable)

I see clearly I need to delve one step deeper into the Wiki. Thank you very much Lumooja, will be a little more vigilant in my research and testing in the future. However I’m still seeing some shortfalls, but I’ll take this discussion up in the C++ programming forum.

SUGGESTED FUNCTIONALITY ALREADY EXISTS Background information: Decided today to begin my decent into the Leadwerks engine. Created a simple program that loaded the Tunnels.sbx for me to view. I then learned that "Lights must be separately created by searching the scene entity"). Problem: There was no way to tell what each entity created in the Leadwerks editor was. GetEntityType is "the entity collision type". GetEntityKey is "the specified key name" for the entity. There is no method to return what an entity’s class is (I use "class" as “type” refers to collision type)e.g. PointLight, Camera, Model, etc. I noticed that in the Leadwerks editor entities can’t share the same "name" (key). This meant that even if you created the scene from scratch with the above problem in mind you still would not be able to use GetEntityKey effectively. Solution: Add an extra parameter to the base entity class that will store the entity’s "type or class" e.g. PointLight = 0, Camera = 1, Model = 2, etc. I'm using C++ and am aware that I could create my own class which creates an entity and also stores its "class", but this solution will not solve the problem with scenes created in the Leadwerks editor. Thus this functionality should also be added into the Leadwerks editor as an additional property that can be edited when creating entities.

The project that I am currently involved in is looking for team members and upon request from the project head I'm putting the below post up. Enjoy! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Team Name: Mannequin Software Project Name: Witch-Hunter: Demon Within Brief Description: Witch-Hunter is an action oriented RPG, playing from a first person perspective players explore Steam Punk London and the rest of a supernatural Europe, with the likes of murky swamps and dark castles. With a large arsenal of fictional weapons players will fight off against such creatures as Vampires, Werewolves and Zombies some of which may have mechanical upgrades. The world history of Witch-Hunter is huge, we have developed a document similar to the "Halo Story Bible" and it includes world history covering everything from the 1400's AD to 1999. Target Aim: While Retail is a dream, we will be aiming for a Shareware release in a similar fashion to what id Software did with DOOM. But also to a more modern and advanced area. Steam might be an outlet which will prevent a lot of piracy which we are considering. Technology: * Leadwerks 2.3 Engine * Microsoft Visual C++ Talent Needed: (A side note: Any member of the team can also work as a designer and add ideas and so forth. This is quite an open project) 3D Art: * Rigger/Animator 2D Art: * Weapon Artist (Graph paper and diagrams are preferred) * Level Layout Design (Graph Paper and Diagrams are, yet again, preferred) * Storyboard Artists (May be a secondary job to one of the ones above) * Texture Artists Programming: * Web Designer * Programmers Later on we will need Level Designers but not right now. Current Team Structure Project Manager & Lead Designer: Tom May Lead Programmer: MasteR Lead Artist: Eoghan Cowan Artists: Simon Community Manager: Jordan Fletcher-Blain Writers: Bjorn Worpell Composer/Writer: Dave Matney Website As of now we don't have a website as such, but we do have a forum. Its quite empty and is full of ridiculous posts. But that's the open area, if you join go into the Member Introductions and introduce yourself as someone who wants to help you will be granted access to the Game Development forums (which are even more empty, but hopefully will become more developed...ironic?) www.witchhunter-forum.darkbb.com Contact For any enquires the project lead can be contacted via email: tjpmay@tpg.com.au ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'll leave with a link to a more in depth rundown of the project and a small selection of concept art. http://www.moddb.com/forum/thread/3d-artists-leadwerks-programmers-project-manager-wanted-for-fpsrpg-steampunk-game-called-witch-hunter-demon-within