panz3r
-
Posts
132 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Blogs
Forums
Store
Gallery
Videos
Posts posted by panz3r
-
-
16 hours ago, IceBurger said:
He did say it was not a high priority
It was one of the advertised features for leadwerks 5.. If is not done in 10years then is vaporware.
-
18 hours ago, Josh said:
Ultra supports this in the enterprise build.
One thing I found is that supporting double floats by itself is not that useful. The next thing people want is some streaming terrain and planet system to populate the world with. But that itself isn't that useful, because no one actually has any data for such a system, so the next thing they need is some kind of geospatial mapping system that fetches real world terrain data.
So I consider all of those things to go together and be required before this will see release.
So where i ca buy this Leadwerks 5 that supports double precision ? 10 years ago was not said that will be only enterprise.
In any case this looks like a joke. Of course double precision is useful without planet and streaming terrain, you are just inventing lame excuses.
If 10 years was not enough to bring to game developers leadwerks 5 with double precision is clear that this is vaporware. Anyway now there is no reason to make plans to use Leadwerks when Godot is free, opensource and have double precision and unreal 5 is kind of free and blows out of the water Leadwerks engine one the graphic quality and also have double pecision.
Maybe leadwerks have some niche in non-gaming industries like simulations due to licenses aspects but it is cleat that for game dev it lost the train.
-
Looks like even after 10 year double precision is not available and Leadwerks 5 is a mythical unicorn. In the meantime Godot and Unreal 5 have it for free.
-
Some monthly payment, would be possible only when LE3 will get complete and more optimized.
The day you'll get astonisehd by LE3 : gorgeous graphics, effects, vegetation and terrain, water, all BSP tools , great frame rate, some more tools, then yes it's price could go up line Unity Pro but more cheaper and then why not a monthly subscription like UE4.
UE4 is lot of bugs , alpha stage but as advanced tools , features and redering monthly subscription works.
For UE4 you can pay once 18 and stop subscription and can still use it legally . Only downside you will not be able get updates.
Main problem with ue4 is royalties and the extra work they generate for an accountant.
-
Even if it happends in reality will change nothing. If anything will contribute to leadwerks sucess. At some point valve was hacked and source code on internet. Do they look in a bad shape to you ? Windows deliberately allowed updates to pirate xp copies etc.
Nobody will build anything commercial with pirated stuff. And if they do they will get sued and money will be recovered 100 times.
-
Some smaller abandonned 3D engine proposed evolutions based on donation amount to reach, there were some motivated people ... well never heard of it anymore. Indeed it would cost too much, because of compatibility problems, complexity of bugs will only delay main PC/Linux platforms even with some people paying something.
Paying all year for bugs .... and how if nobody pays no more ... you will have to pay the full note ?
Even if it is some idea , you can make pay for features, but clients rarely will pay for bug fixes as this is part of engine to have bug fixes.
And correcting bugs, don't mean making Leadwerks 3.0 mobile evolve in terms of editor or features, why paying if you have better and free 3D solution for mbile. Only solution to not slow down PC/Linux, would be to have some guy working full time for Josh, but for that it would need :
- Massive demand for mobile
- Mobile complete features new price and more expensive
Yeah I am feeling that I am beating a dead horse. RIP Leadwerks Mobile
-
Full source code for mobile included too !! Thank you !
-
Maybe payed support cand be a solution - like 100-200 per bug fixed. For reported bugs Josh estimate a cost and people contribute and when ammount is reached Josh fixes it.
-
A 'simple' mobile product as yougroove suggests will still cost an anormous amount of time and money. What would be the difference with a 'normal' mobile add on? You would still have to make all the support to several android devices. You still would have to adapt and maintain the render engine speciffacly targeted to mobile.
We try to come with a solution. What is your proposal Aggror, i promise i will support it if is anything else then "get used with it, there will be no mobile". I have big respect for you because i learned a lot from your tutorials .
I would be fine to pay 1000 for the source code of 3.0 as it is now(+ some minor stuff fixed).
Or maybe Josh sets a price tag to open source it to verybody with a kickstart project.
-
wait for official news. mobile is not dead it may comes back some day. focusing on a stable xplattform engine is more important now. sure it is not nice for us but its better than a buggy engine with overload of supported platforms. forget about the past. 3.1 seems to be completly redesigned. if we have linux/mac/win support and a good engine that fit our need that will be worth it. josh dont do that to annoy us he do it to give us a stable 3.1 engine. he is not lucky with it but this is business if you dont care about little things you will fail so it does here. so make the best about it or feel free to use other engines that are the best choice for you if you really extremly need mobile support for now. josh created a nice engine here dont forget that he did all the stuff alone.
DudeAwesome, i am not sure how old are you but i can tell you one thing. In business if people don;t trust you they don;t make business with you. I said I understand his point of not macking money but I would expect that Josh would offer some options for peoples involved in mobile development. Yougroove proposed a different product bassed on Leadwerks 3.0 named Leadwerks mobile and which gets only bug fixed. That would be fine.( Btw i don;t even want to start with false advertising sh1t and bait and switch)
-
First of, "the community" doesn't homogeneously make games but individuals in it do. "The Windows community" (whatever that might be) doesn't develop games either and you would never make such a nonsensical statement.
With that in mind, the lead dev of Starbound is a Linux guy and that's actually where the game is build first before it is send to another dev for Windows and Mac compilation. Popular enough?
Also don't put words in my mouth I never said, I only said you can't attribute the entire stretch amount to just OUYA/Android while also admitting that some people did back the project just for that. Wilfully misunderstanding somebody's statement to undermine it makes for really bad debate.
Dude, i don;t want to debate you, I am glad if you are going to develop a linux game. I am sick of dual booting.
-
Panz3r I ask you to stop making claims on the behalf of the entire linux community.
There's plenty of developers for just about everything on Linux including games. I know plenty of Linuxers that have developed games in the past, currently are or are planning to do so in the future. Only very few people drop hundreds of dollars into a Kickstarter just because.
It is also intelectually dishonest to claim that every bit of money given during the OUYA/Android strech goal phase was just for that one stretch goal. During stretch goals people still mainly give to support the core pitch, while some people are in it for the feature that this stretch goal offers and a different group of people wants to push for the stretch goals that come after which naturally means the first one has to be reached first.
I have already added my 2 cents about dropping mobile support in the Steam forums but overall I can emphasize with the decision.
Well then you and me are in different linux comunities.The linux comunity where i am is praising open source and is tolerating close source. (Just for the reference can you point me to one of the popular/succesfully games made by the linux comunity you are refering that you know?)
Is also dishonest to claim that Ouya did not contribute with anything to the Kickstarter while Josh did PR by wisiting them and they had a strech goal. And i did put my money where my mouth is and i gaved 200 to the kickstarter for linux and i did this when the fund was bellow 10k and i had allready LW3.0+mbiles.
And BTW you got it wrong, i didn;t said linux comunity will not use , just that this CAN be a scenario next year when obviously the number of linux users will be still smaller than the number of windows users.
-
I think the difference is that the Linux demand already gave Leadwerks money in the Kickstarter where that wasn't the case for mobile. Also like we've both agreed on, for mobile you don't buy that license (mostly) until you have something already on the PC. That's not the same for Linux because there are crazy Linux fans out there that want their entire development of the game to be on Linux (which is what LE is giving them).
The Android demand (Ouya) gave also money trough kickstarter. Josh was even visiting Ouya community.
Well I don't see why somebody would not buy only widows license and buy later linux and os.
The crazy linux fans are usually more in networking, sysadmin and less in game developing. What they want is games that run native in linux and then to compile everything from source code. Unless leadwerks become fully open source the value of native developing is only convenience and not religion.
-
Fast forward one year from now this could be (italic are edits):
I can meet the needs of Linux Windows and PC developers quite well. The Leadwerks workflow is really cool and different from anything else out there. The editor is getting more refined, and the engine is rapidly gaining a lot of power (on PC Windows). I don't think I can meet the needs of mobile Linux developers right now.
PC Windows
Cost of development: Medium
Demand: High
Mobile Linux
Cost of development: High
Demand: Low
Nothing I have seen in the last few months has given me a strong indication otherwise. I think the question came up twice on the Steam forum.
-
To be fair Unity does not have out the box all that. And yes I have not done mbile development, was reserved fr later
-
I will draw the picture if is so hard to understand:
unity pro= 1500 , people are fine with this price and stick to unity
Unity pro+ios pro+android pro =4500 people are not so fine and look to alternatives. Leadwerks was a good deal - 600 for pc+mobile.
Because ue4 and cryengine unity will have to revise the price especially to mobile.
Now leadwerks dropping mobile , ue4 entering in scene and unity most likely having to drop prices leadwerks is not interesting anymore. Btw i don;t advocate unity or ue, just presenting facts.
All leadwerks had to do was to add gui, iron bugs, and push it to steam to be a major success. Instead ego asked deferred rendering and this killed mobile.
-
I don;t know why i actually bother to argue. Is obvious that this one of the cases of you get what you pay for. My plan to save 3000 for pro licenses for unity mobile backfired on me and made me lose time and money. I guess i will just suck it up and pay unity . The porting of my project from unity pro was going quite well actually.
I am wondering how long until this thread will be closed and unfavourable posts deleted.
-
I'm not in support of this idea, I just understand the situation Josh is in and realize no amount of complaining will change the fact that mobile didn't bring in the money. So what's the point? Sounds like he offered refunds if people wanted them.
[/size][/font][/color]
And you aren't seeing the business angle. I also think your alternatives are unreasonable given the information we now know from Josh about mobile sales. I know in your heart you believe something but until the bank can cash your heart, it's a failing business plan.
[/size][/font][/color]
1. Not sure what you mean by this? Maybe to maintain only 1 mobile platform? (guess you want Android where I would actually want iOS so now he's pissing people off still). Also, he's already stated that mobile dev takes a long time and is eating into the other, more profitable platforms. His example was specifically how Android takes longer because of all the devices to support. So this isn't a solution for the Leadwerks business.
2. How does this benefit Leadwerk's bottom line? Again, this takes time away from the profitable platforms.
3. Leadwerks is not open source. Asking a person to display their "lives work" is unreasonable. That's a personal decision.
The only real reasonable solution from a business standpoint is to do a Kickstarter for mobile and ask for enough money that would allow Josh to hire a contractor to do a lot of the debugging/testing that is going to need to be done.
1.I am fine with IOS even if is not my preferred choice.
2. So all that counts is how can Leadwerks benefit. How about trust and respecting customers ?
3. I think you are a bit confused. I don;t ask to make it opensource but to provide source code so we can support ousrself. Josh does provide source code if you have enough money, is on the shop. As it is not my fault that he wants to stop mobile support I don't understand why you see this option so unreasonable.
And btw my time is valuable, i recon i put at least 100 hours in leadwerks, how can this be Refunded now that Leadwerks is clearly off the table as option?
-
1
-
-
- Where are you basing that 90% on?
- "Besure that money will talk soon if you chose to go this path". The last year has proven to be the exact opposite of that.
Why does everybody keep comparing to unity and unreal? Josh is a 1 man team while these other companies have millions of dollars and more than 50 people working at them. They can afford to do a lot of free and open source stuff.
If the sales for mobile don't provide enough money for the maker of the engine you will have to make a decision at some point to just stop working on it. This isn't an easy thing to do and you will always kick someone in the chins with it.
I rather have a more stable platform on windows, linux and mac, then a half baked engine on windows, linux, mac, ios and android.
Beside you and Rick who have a special relation with Josh i don;t see many people supporting this idea.
Money flowed because we bought Hope . We understood that is a young engine and hoped things will be fixed in the future just to be told to suck it up and get over with it.
I offered alternatives but Josh can see only his angle.
-
Josh, that is how it looks from your angle.
This is how it look from my(/our) angle.
We chose and payed for leadwerks when it was supporting pc+mobile. In my particular case mobile is a must be. During all discussions about the 3.1 upgrade costs it was never mentioned that mobile will be dropped. When i asked about mobile upgrade costs it was said that there will be no costs, and not that will be no mobile. I can bet that 90% of the buyers plan to launch on mobile too once they have the pc version working.
By just delaying this announcement to last moment we can question the good faith.We have supported you in kickstarter, did preorders for 3.1 in dec etc.
Be sure that money will talk soon if you chose to go this path.Your engine will be considered high risk to be used.
In my opinion 3 things can be done:
1. Keep one mobile
2. Make a legal binding to provide support (bug fixes) for 3.0 for as long leadwerks does not have mobile in current version
3. Provide source code to 3.0 and wish good luck to them.
Now is not the moment to piss off your customers and potential customers when: unity 5 will be aaa quality in summer, UE4 with source code in 18$ and cryengine is 9$.
And i don;t get all this drama over source code. If somebody want to steal they can steal legally from Ogre and Irrlicht. There are other engines with source code: c4, ue4.
-
[/size][/font][/color]
Josh never said mobile is dead with LE, just that he's focusing on the PC right now. So who knows what will be in 2 years. All I know is right now I can make mobile games using LE 3.0. Will Unity even be around in 2 years? Given the recent developments of UDK and CryEngine who knows. In this industry nothing is a promise.
[/font][/color]
Again, my point was the different ways to support different size businesses. Unity can withstand a year or more of dev cycles before their mobile sales pick up because people are finishing games. LE cannot.
[/size][/font][/color]
What were we promised with LE 3.0 mobile? I may have missed a thread but from what I can tell Josh did give us a mobile version that works.
Honestly, you want to get mobile on Josh's radar then make a game for it that rocks. I bet he'll pay attention. Again, this is a different style based on the size of the business.
I honestly think if Josh would have done a separate Kickstarter specifically for mobile it would have been a better indication of the demand. He got on the Kickstart wagon too late though which is a shame.
Rick, you made a game for mobile, my question is are you sure your game will be able to run on android 4.8 in 2 years ?
I am positive that unity will exist in 2 years even with UE4 offer. In fact Unity 5 will atack UE and cryengine on AAA(enlightment etc).
I agree with a lot of your points but not this. Why would you try to make a game that could be impossible to finish due to bugs that won't be fixed?
This must be a cynical joke, make an game after the support stopped.
-
[/size][/font][/color]
I agree but that's because $1,500 for a lone dev is a lot. What was it, $99 for LE Android? That's much more reasonable to anyone. Also, again, Unity is established in the mobile space and is a bigger company than LE.
[/size][/font][/color]
?? I still own 3.0. I can still make games that target 3.0 so that hasn't been taken away from me.
are you sure you will still be able to make games in 2 years and run them ?
-
A lot of people did not buy the mobile add on because (A) the main engine lacked features. Why would you spend extra money when the engine lacked enough features to create a game? (b)You really do not need to export to a mobile device until you start to get to the end of production. Last time I checked, game creation can take a good bit of time to create a game start to finish. So there is no need to buy a export add on until you get farther in the game creation.
Exactly my toughs. I did buy 3.0 mobile as an incentive for developer however(and because it was a good price).
-
I have been offered as well refund but I refused because I am glad I could help linux (and Leadwerks) community.
To be fair i did not put all the eggs in the same basket and i had 3 parallel implementations (with 3 different engines) for my project so I can work with other 2 (server side is where the heavy lifting part stays).
However , "never say never" so we will see
double precision floats
in General Discussion
Posted
So where i can download it to make a game with double precision.