Scott Richmond
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Posts posted by Scott Richmond
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I'd say pick LUA. I think what Josh is saying is that his implementation is going to grow and change pretty rapidly so getting stuck into some serious project wouldn't be a best of ideas. But I think you'd be fine with it.
As for Framewerk. I'm checking it out now. Its looking like you can just plug her right in. Though, it does change the way you render so it may require a rewrite of your render code in the game loop.
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That sounds fantastic Chris. I'd love to see a bit of a guide and your C++ code integrating it.
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That's why you have the source.
hehe, indeed. Any plans to expand of the Framewerk feature set. IE give the functions the ability to modify bloom, HDR, etc variable? Maybe I'll take Framewerk and do it myself, depending on how complex it turns out to be.
Lua is just another language to access all the same commands with as you do in C++, C#, or any of the other supported languages. However, it is a free easy to use popular language, so supporting it gains me a lot of new fans. It can also be used with other languages on a per-entity basis.
--snip--
If you're comfortable with C, you've got everything you need already to make a game. A problem we found is that people can get through the tutorials and understand everything, but still don't know how to structure a game. And my response has always been that I can't write their game for them. With Lua, yeah, to a degree I am writing your game for you. But everyone is writing functionality, and it's easy to mix and match components.
So it depends on your skill level. Some people use C++ and make games. Some people use BlitzMax and make games. Some people say they want to use C++, but they have trouble making anything with it, and are better off with Lua. Some people just like Lua because it is fun. My personal preference is BlitzMax, but I am finding Lua to be a lot of fun.
Aye, I won't pretend, I am only a year or so into C++ and I have little game development experience other than modding. But I think I'll stick to C++. I want to learn it because I want to apply it to other programming fields. And I think It'll be more rewarding in the long run.
That said, I'll still continue to dabble in LUA, but C++ looks to me my choice language.
Thanks for replying Josh.
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Framewerk handles all the effects. You can implement them yourself one at a time, but it is difficult, even for me, to get all of them working together. So most people just use Framewerk instead of struggling with basic rendering effects. It handles DOF, water, bloom, HDR, god rays, SSAO, and a bunch of other stuff, with simple on/off behavior.
Aye I did see that in the Wiki. Though I worries me a bit that there is in fact just an on/off switch. How does one modify the features? For example, bloom/HDR appear to be a little too over-bright by default. I understand the idea is to simplify the whole process, but I do think I'll require at least a little customization.
Lua is quite new, and the integration with C++ is something we have to explore further. This will evolve, but I would not start writing a large amount of code in Lua just yet. I think it is possible to expose all your own C++ classes to Lua and call engine and C++ functions from the script, but we still need to work it out.
Ah I see. So for now it is a bit of a all or nothing affair unless you feel like digging into unknown territory.
How do you see things evolving though Josh? Do you have a 'perfect world' design paradigm or have you included LUA primarily as another language to use such as BlitzMax or C++?
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I'm trying to get my head around all the modules LE now uses, and what role they could play in my game.
LEO
I'm loving LEO. All nice a OO and modular. So I'll keep using that as much as I can.
Framewerk
I'm not entirely sure I get Framewerk. What is its purpose? It looks like its a bunch of classes that help simplify the rendering aspect of the engine. But it also looks like it locks you into a pretty specific design philosophy. Why are some of you using Framewerk?
LUA
I've been reading most of the LUA threads that have popped up on the forum thus far and I really like the sound of it. I think I could have a good use for it. How does it integrate with a C++ codebase though? I did like the sound of models having an attached LUA script that can have classes such as Update() that is automatically run at every tick. How does that work?
Please excuse the non-specific questions, I am just trying to gain a grasp of the bigger picture here so I can make sure I am following a decent design for my programming.
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Hooks
in Programming
I tend to agree with Rick - Garrys Mod is very adhoc and so Hooks were no doubt a very useful tool. But in LE its usefulness is considerably less. That said, it fits right into the whole speedy programming and ease of use that LUA brings to the party.
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Hooks
in Programming
Well in his example there you could run x code whenever a number of Updatexxx functions are run. IMO I guess it has a use, but surely its a sign of bad design?
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I suppose so you did read the dexsoft-games.txt that resides in the same Private folder as the .pak files you were looking at?
Does it matter?
Well yeah it kind of does. The items are readily available in the editor, so one fully expects to be able to use them. Instead you get some abstract error and crash because LE can't find the one or two files that are locked away. Only after digging through the logs and searching out the offending models do you find this locked pak file and a document stating that they're shareware. Thats shady business for a product you pay good money for.
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I think its obvious why the .pak files are protected and reside in a folder called "private".
As far as I am aware (as I have not gotten around to lua yet for this purpose) you need to make sure you have the right paths to those files, lua does not use Josh's abstract file system.
Wait, so we've got shareware in our SDK?
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Actually Josh one thing I realised not 2 minutes ago, and I'm not yet sure sure if this is related, is that the models and materials under /Private/ won't work in anything but the editor. Why? Because you've password protected the .pak files, which contain all the files for those models. It looks like you've got copies of most of the files in the directory there, but a few (texture for the Spruce tree for example) aren't.
If you try to load ANY of the included maps via LUA, and I presume C++ as well, they fail because they cannot find a file here or there. Trying to load the train map causes the skybox and terrain to fail to load and you only get the train and tracks.
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Was just playing around with LUA with the LUA Editor (Not in the sandbox) and when I went to run the little script I made it sat there churning away at the CPU for ages. I figured it was borked since all it was meant to do is load a map I made in two seconds.
I haven't worked out why that happened, but it made me realise that this editor should have a crash recovery mechanism.
It shouldn't be a big deal - Simply have it save all open files as *.tmp in the same directory every 5 minutes and when it boots back up have it search for *.tmp files and load them and ask the user whether they want to keep or delete the file.
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C++ all the way.
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Yeah, there are a couple simple ones in the main folder. Just open example01.lua in the script editor and press F5 to run it.
Ah! How simple is that! Rockin, this looks like it'll be fun.
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I'm looking more for stuff that's written as a standalone app, not necessarily something that has to run in the editor. The Lua script editor lets you write and run programs. The scene editor is fun, but I think serious programming needs to be done in the standalone script editor. I picture the demo having an html page that shows you the different games you can play, and for each one, a link to play it and a link to open the script and look at it.
No problems. I have no idea how LUA works in conjunction with LE from a high level though (DLing and reading up on LUA now). Do we have any LE LUA stand-alone examples yet?
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I sort of meant specifically to do with your implementation in the editor. But yeah, I am currently looking at your examples. I have a little mini-game in mind already, so I'll see if I can crack it out this week.
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Sounds like a nice little challenge!
Is there actually any documentation on LUA btw? I've not really touched the LE implementation yet.
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Fantastic idea! This sounds like a fun project. +1 rep for you.
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Check out the AppLog and AppLogMode functions.
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Show us what code you're using and what (if any) errors.
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I don't know if that was even implemented in 2.25.
I think your physics objects will have problems if you are moving the submarine without using physics forces. There are commands to calculate the forces to move or rotate a body a certain way.
Is this because moving geom in certain ways doesn't trigger collision and thus force reaction on objects? I know D3 used to disable physics on an object once it reaches a point where it is barely moving and if you say changed the gravity value or moved static geom out from under it, it wouldn't react until a force trigger was applied to it (shooting it for example).
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well... as a matter of fact, some do... haqve ya ever seen 20,000 Leagues beneath the sea... Nemos sub had plenty of windows... ever been aboard a tourist sub off Bermuda... lots of 'windows' in those too...
as far as military subs are concerned... take a cruise aboard one... when it dives you'll understand very quickly why i'd want to move the interior of a model of one around...
until then, i'll try to explain my reasons...
in order to get a feeling of immersion, the sub interior is gonna have to at least pitch and roll while diving and turning... it doesn't necessarily have to move with the exterior model, but it will have to duplicate those movements so the player can get the feel that something is happening...
but my question isn't just related to making submarine interiors...
suppose i wanted to model the titanic... or the inside of a train car in the demo you posted in the sdk... or what about modeling an Abrams Tank... surely you'll conceed that these objects have windows...
what i was trying to get a read on was if there was any reason that these things couldn't be modeled as a scene, and then dropped into a game...
--Mike
I don't think there would be too many technical reasons why not (Though don't hold me to that). It more often comes down to the fact that cutting up a scene often saves a lot of time because you're able to reuse resources more readily.
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I actually had a similar thought I little while ago. It might pay to grab Crysis and open up the airship carrier level in the editer. You'll find that there is very little there that is a complete scene. Much of it is made up of little pieces put together.
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Hrm good catch. You might want to submit this issue into the Bug Tracker so Josh can get visibility of it.
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don't forgot, Josh has to sleep too, lol
Lies and deceit! I thought it was a prerequisite for any half decent programmer to have insomnia.
LEO, Framewerk, LUA. Where does one start?
in Programming
Posted
I think you just create an ultra basic boot strap exe via C++. The video above shows that you can load LUA scripts from a C++ environment, so I'll bet its as simple as a line of code.
With Framewerk, yeah I dunno. It cuts the rendering up into 3 layers, or phases, I think. It looks nice but I think I'd rather have some control over stuff like Bloom and HDR.
EDIT: That said, looking at some of the render code in Framewerk. It looks rather complex. I think I'd ruin myself if I tried to implement my own solution to that at this point hah.