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mdgunn

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Blog Comments posted by mdgunn

    Josh

    In-Game Menu

    in Ultra Software Company Blog

    A group blog by The Ultra Software Team in General

    Posted

    Current beta seems to be crashing for me (tut sample as base then simple box with camera and spectator script).  Window launches but never makes it.   Normal branch seemed OK.

    Executing "D:\Work\Leadwerks\Projects\Tut2\Tut2\Tut2.exe"...
    Initializing Lua...
    Lua sandboxing enabled.
    Executing file "D:/Work/Leadwerks/Projects/Tut2/Tut2/Scripts/Error.lua"
    Executing file "D:/Work/Leadwerks/Projects/Tut2/Tut2/Scripts/Main.lua"
    Executing file "D:/Work/Leadwerks/Projects/Tut2/Tut2/Scripts/Menu.lua"
    Initializing OpenGL graphics driver...
    OpenGL version 451
    GLSL version 450
    Device: Radeon (TM) RX 480 Graphics
    Process Complete.

    I might uninstall everything and put beta back on but it would be tomorrow night before I get a chance.

     

     

     

     

     

    Admin

    Version 4.4 beta updated

    in Ultra Software Company Blog

    A group blog by The Ultra Software Team in General

    Posted

    If you post a demo Julio can actually debug the physics now since Newton is an external DLL.

     

    What needs to be uploaded. The whole zipped source folder?

     

    In this case there is really nothing special in the scene. I created some CSG boxes gave them a mass of 5 and put them on top of each other. I duplicated the stacks to make sure there were a number of similar things in case some did not exhibit a problem.

     

    The boxes were are all duplicates of 1 box created and placed with snapping on so should be identical to each other and lining up to the snap grid in dimensions and placement. There are some meshes in the scene which do exhibit the same problem, so not limited to CSG.

     

    As this seemed so basic I imagined others are seeing this without providing the source for such a simple situation.

    aiaf

    Posted

    Interesting what you say about GetAddress. I'd not got to using that. Can you explain a scenario you've found it useful in? I've sometimes found it difficult to find problems. Things like objects getting freed up due to reference counting reaching zero and me not realising it. Is this the sort of scenario you a using it in?

    mdgunn

    Posted

    Yep staying safe in most areas (sound effects, core software etc.) helps you actually finish something!

     

    I like to try to progress with my skills in a particular area too.

     

    I plan to use Leadwerks and stay fairly safe with a first person game of some sort. I hope to refine my skills a bit in modular level creation and possibly some simple 3D asset creation.

     

    I forgot to mention but there are quite a few people stream their development or blog their progress so you get some good ideas of the tools people use and their workflows which can be interesting.

    Josh

    Posted

    I think the expectation is that there will be pressure for dual cores to disappear from new machines when AMD Zen is out (late 2016/early 2017?) as I don't think there is going to be a dual core Zen and I *think* even the most basic Zen is expected to be significantly better than any current dual core Intel (which wasn't the case previously).

    Josh

    Posted

    Maybe this is a good time to put some time into improving the flow graph editor as it is often a natural partner to scripts. This would get some SYSTEM improvements going and maybe they move forwards together.

     

    I think most experienced users abandon the flow graph editor as projects get large but maybe with some improvements it can remain useful.

     

    A zoom feature seems like the simplest missing feature to implement. Though it the GUI doesn't support scaling at all then probably not so simple.

     

    Another easy one seems to be that if you click the object in the flow graph then the script editor opens the right script (only one script per object right?)

     

    Maybe some sort of componentised/node based script (not attached to an object) so you can link scripts together and perform logic/decisions before feeding into the next (e.g. Maths functions).

     

    Better way to organise all the flow graph objects. A simple note would be a start so you can stick a note next to related items. Maybe clicking the title bar expands/collapses the body and you can collapse all/ expand all/collapse selected/expand selected.

     

    Many, or all, of these have been mentioned by others in the forums.

     

    Maybe a few quick flow-graph plasters aren't the answer but I think other current engines have something similar and in general it's quite a neat tool that can help users get going. Currently it is feels somewhat bare bones, but with basic UI abilities zoom/show/hide/collapse/group it might help usabilty.

     

    I think Josh recently mentioned a desire to address general UI cross-platform limitations and maybe the flow-graph editor is bound by issues in this area but it would be neat if it were possible to have some quick improvement to let us enjoy the new scripts in nice environment.

    Josh

    Posted

    In general I think it's a good idea to have more scripts though I think Rick has some valid concerns about LeadWerks long term needs.

     

    Some more good quality scripts may help people better realise their game ideas. More scripts, and assets using them, might achieve some quick wins for LW. Such as:-

    • Better understanding of scripts by users and an expansion of possibilities to reuse them
    • More 'value' store resources if good scripts included - scripts can be time consuming to produce (right?) but a good script can be re-used many times.

     

    Scripts don't only have to be available only in their in indvidual assets in the store. There is also the option to make them available elsewhere as incentive to highlight a store item that uses them well. I think there is a wish to keep scripts out of paid items to minimise 'come-back' on old scripts not 100% working at somet future point for paid assets. Perhaps a forum section for store items. I think the new Mercenary asset had the relevant scripts provided without purchase?

     

    This area of script production sounds like the sort of thing that Josh doesn't HAVE to be the only person doing everything on. Though he probably wants strong editorial control over and maybe 100% input in some areas it seems not impractical for others to be involved with. More so than core system work.

     

    I'd be interested in Josh's take on scripts for sure but it would be cool to see some others and maybe this might help kickstart things a bit. I know there are some scripts up on the wiki and you can usually find answers in the forum (which is excellent guys!) but maybe it should be a little easier to find them.

    Josh

    Posted

    I notice there is a LUA implementation of behaviour trees.

     

    https://github.com/tanema/behaviourtree.lua

     

    I've not used it but anyone knows how practical it would be to use in Leadwerks?

     

    I've seen some people re-use LUA projects from elsewhere but I've never tried it yet.

     

    Is building on existing projects to get an official or community-official solution to some problems a practical option?

     

    It sort of gives you an existing 'system' using open code which you can modify rather than being locked out from.

     

    Personally I think re-using an library that requires much work to integrate is, if not beyond the skill of most, then beyond the desire of most users who would choose LeadWerks.

     

    If that is a viable route then I think there would need to be EXCELLENT and SPECIFIC documentation on how to get these things going.

    Josh

    Posted

    Yep I saw that with the Merc character (which I bought) and I think that helps pull the trigger.

     

    Thanks for informing me Nova's stuff has textures. I will probably buy one now. On the workshop item it mentions the dimensions of textures but I wouln't have read that as certainty that they contain files outside the models.

     

    I'm guessing they are the dirtied version. Would have been neat to have a clean version too so you could use it as old and new.

    Josh

    Posted

    Fantastic. So this means people can (in some cases) access the files used to make the LW object rather than it being locked only into the LW file right?

     

    I wonder would it be possible that items in the workshop can be made to automatically list the contents of their archive, so we don't have to rely on each author to manually do this.....or at the very least some single indication that an item is supposed to come with resources.

     

    On a related note. If items are more open (which I think is important even if they are only used in LW), is it clear what the usage terms are for each item. In particular can the item be used outside LW. Is there a default for that, such as unless stated by author then item is assumed to be OK to use elsewhere?

    Josh

    Posted

    I have always viewed the workshop as a place for community's to collaborate and share. I'm guessing it will take a good amount of time people to view it as a marketplace.

     

    Agreed. I think community collaboration is a LW strength which as you say is reflected in the workshop.

     

     

    While I suggested scripts, shaders and game templates might be paid for items I was thinking that if items were to be paid for then such are more easily produced by the internal community than items such as high end models.

     

    On the one hand I like that the workshop is mostly free but on the other it would be nice to reward and encourage users that have clearly put in a lot of time to helping the community.

    Josh

    Posted

    I feel the things that would probably sell are reusable generic content like game templates, shaders and possibly scripts. I think these are easier and quicker for existing skilled users to produce than complex animated models.

     

    I think Josh may have already stated that models are preferred because they are stable.

     

    I see the logic in this but from the point of view of sales I think the things people *are* probably looking for and would buy are probably game/project templates, shaders and maybe scripts. Models I think need to be easily to modify or extend (e.g. a base figure which can be changed) with props, retextured etc., or be a construction kit. Ideally models would not be tied to the engine though SHOULD provide features to make them work easily in the engine to encourage and help users along this easiest path.

     

    I think I like the idea of curated items though I think ratings, review and a dedicated linked forum page for each item can help provide a level of user driven curation. Forum pages can give publishers a more wordy or visual arena to portray their items and detail updates etc.. Just a passing thought.

     

    I think game templates in particular would sell quite well. If a user can see part of their vision in a game template then I think it's quite likely they may buy it. We don't want a masive amount of cookie cutter clones like U*I*Y but I would hope our user base is more interested in satisfying their own itch to develop something that works, rather than looking to flip assets for profit.

     

    Having suggested paid for templates I also have to say that I am REALLY glad that there are free game templates with the product. I really think they are critical aids in the learning process to make sure you stick with the product enough to produce something you are happy with. I think it is also important that the whole user base has access to the same ones. So I think game templates would sell but I think we still need more free ones as well.

     

    Maybe paid ones could fill the gap if that is how LeadWerks becomes more successful and users aren't upset they have to be paid for. The net gain may be positive if it helps more users get more successful projects out and get more users to the position where they expose LW favourably to the wider internet (blogs etc.).

    Josh

    Posted

    Interesting to see some figures on costs. I'm glad it was investigated as an option as it was a largley external thing so has not used to much dev time. However, most other software seems to allow the user base to produce content. The catch is attracting the market which needs a large user base. Difficult.

     

    Can anything be learnt from GG and it's approach (hopefully you know which software I mean - I don't know if we're allowed to name names).

     

    They seem to have a fair bit of content in their store which in the past was possible to import to LW through a (lengthy?) process.

     

    I think the point about officlal DLC has some validity. I think people in general feel safer about that and expect it to be of high quality.

     

    With regards the icon. When I clicked on it I didn't know what it was, I just wondered what the new button did.

     

    I find the store a little awkward, maybe it's partly my connection but I find after clicking there are a number of seconds before anything seems to happen but no real screen indication that it is doing anything. Sometimes I feel a slight reluctance to use it just because it feels a bit clunky.

     

    In my mind the in-game workshop/store *IS* the place to go to look for things, so it has achieved that. I'm not sure about the purchasing aspect though. I suppose it's early days.

    Josh

    Posted

    Would agree a store is probably necessary (see FPS Creator Reloaded/Construct 2/Game maker as well as Unity etc.).

     

    For beginners I found Jorn's YouTube tutorials were essential for me to get up to speed in an applied but modular fashion.

     

    I think construct 2 and their web site get a lot of things right for getting started and building community and resources. (You're probably not meant to mention other software but this is 2D and it seems relevant to point it out specifically).

     

    An easy way for LW to help new users is a nice attractive splash/start page like construct 2 has. It isn't a splash as such because it doesn't go away and is actually useful. The page actually stays open all the time in a tab (which fits their tabbed interface fine). You can disable it in configuration.

     

    construct2.png

     

    There's loads of useful stuff on there.

    - 2 'full' game projects (with tuts to follow)

    - Many real world useful skeleton templates (endless runner etc.).

    - Links to manual, tutorials, forums and store

    - You Tube FB etc.

    - Friendly 'Plain English' *sentence* re-iterating same info above it.

     

    Importantly the graphic and presentation are nice enough and readable enough that I don't feel compelled to turn this of and it is still a convenient place to do whatever task you want to do on program start (new/open/recent projects). If a program is aimed at beginners or users that want approachable software then the start UI can probably be more inviting than a traditional and typical windows software.

     

     

    They also provide a resource pack (as LW does) which isn't mentioned in here but seems well signposted on the web site I think .

     

    I get a strong impression from construct (Scirra) that they have done usability testing, and acted upon it.

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